CFA Comms Ch Usage

[Blake]

I'm baaaaack



With the recent Carrum Downs and Ultima fires, the scanner got a work out, with lots of traffic on 'new' (to me) channels.
[If that makes sense]

I'm hoping some of you knowledgeable blokes can help me.

So, on a big fire (like the aforementioned two), you would have an ICC (Incident Control Center),
it would be overseeing everything - ops, comms, weather, alerts etc.

Now, for most normal/small sized fires (with multiple appliances), trucks get dispatched via VF channels,
then when they are on scene, they switch over to a fireground channel (which permits local simplex comms, without clogging up the main dispatch channel).
If there's an FCV on scene, they have 2 mobile radios - one for dispatch, one for fireground, so they can monitor both and act like a 'go between'.

However, with very large incidents, you have GoTo Fireground channels, IMC (Incident Management Channels) and IC (Incident Control) channels active (from what I can tell).

I get all of this so far (kinda )



What i'm asking is how are the comms disseminated down the chain???

From the ICC, are IC channels used to communicate to, what? (FOV??? Comms Van?), which then use IMCs to communicate with FCVs???, which then communicate with individual appliances over fireground channels???

It's all very confusing?

So, how are the comms pools arranged, how are messages transmitted (and through what channels) down the line, from the top (ICC) all the way down to individual trucks???

What is involved? FOV? Local comms vans? FCVs? District HQ's? ICCs? IMCs? ICs?

Where are the ICC's by the way?

And why am I getting what appears to be AV traffic on IC 160, and SES traffic on IMC 184?




Anyway, I am so, so sorry for whoever tries to wrap their brain round the ramblings of this nut


Cheers blokes,
have a happy and safe new year.

[X-Firey]

You ask a very complex question and it's a hard one to answer because there are so many variables. So I won't try at this point as all of us will be confused...

The Carrum Downs fire was about half kilometre from my location and they ran a couple of channels, f/grnd 281 and 342 from memory. Ch111 was also active at a later stage. Patterson River MCV was set up as the control point and sent the messages to VicFire. The MCV maintained communications with allocated fireground channels and Incident Controller. As a matter of interest MFB f/grnd Ch11 was also allocated to the job as the MFB attended as part of the initial 'make tankers 10'. Two P/Tankers and a Commander responded.

Re your issues with CFA channels 160 and 184. Do you have the CTCSS programmed? Those frequencies are also part of SMR Network. If I remove the CTCSS from those channels I receive the SES and other SMR chatter. Also each district has an ICC so they may be located at the district HQ or other suitable location. Unfortunately I don't know where they are.

[Blake]

Nah, not at all.
Thanks for chiming in X-Firey.

In essence:
How are messages transmitted (and through what channels) down the line, from the top (ICC) all the way down to individual trucks??? When are IMC and IC channels used, and how?

[Blake]

All right, after quite a dig all afternoon, i've managed to turn some stuff up.
I'm still hella confused, and my original questions (above) still stand.

Here's what i've managed to put together:

CFA Comms Dissemination Order

SCC - State Control Centre
8 Nicholson St, Melbourne

ICC - Incident Control Centres (28 Total)
Bendigo
Wodonga
Gisborne

LCF - Local Command Facility (Lvl 2 Static) / DCC - District Command Centres
D04 - Casterton
D05- Hamilton
D06 - Colac
D07 - Geelong North
D08 - Dandenong
D09 - Warragul
D10 - Sale
D11 - Bairnsdale
D12 - Seymour
D13 - Lilydale
D14 - Melton
D15 - Wendoouree
D16 - Ararat
D17 - Horsham
D18 - Swan Hill
D20 - Kerang
D22 - Shepparton
D23 - Wangaratta
D24 - Wodonga
D27 - Morwell

MCV - Mobile Command Vehicles (Lvl 2 ICC)

FOV - Field Operation Vehicle
Mildura
Bendigo
Ballarat
Moe South
Inverloch
Bairnsdale
D14 - Nillumbik Group

FCV - Forward Command Vehicle


----

DCC - District Command Centre

RCC - Regional Control Centre (8 Total)

Essentially:
SCC - Super large hub, overseeing the state, and each ICC
ICC - are the main incident control centres (for big stuff)
LCFs and MCVs can function as Level 2 ICC's where needed (LCFs being static stations, MCVs being heavy trucks).
FOVs are van type units, similar to MCVs but for smaller stuff.
FCVs are the ones we know and love, for the little/regular fires - monitor VF Dispatch and the Fireground channel.



I'm still sketchy on locations (maybe someone could add to the list).
And whether District HQs, LCFs and DCCs are the same thing, or different?
And RCCs. Whatever the heck they are.

Bloody hell, they love their acronyms don't they
So, yeah, the above questions still stand, but this is just an update.

Cheers blokes.

[scannerman]

Theres a chain of command most major even are run on Delwp CH's or whatever they are calling them selves these days.
cfa appliances let vic fire know they are on strike team such and such and will be changing to a delwp ch. all coms are run through delwp back to there icc then updated via a central computer that updates vicfire and other agency's its a complex chain of command you also have LCF's and other radio's in use such as citizen band radio for simplex between trucks SMR radios and simplex fireground ch's since the introduction of digital you will hear a lot more cfa traffic on the uhf now than on a digital fireground ch for small jobs as most brigades are fed up with digital simplex not working and have no other choice but to use a uhf.

[X-Firey]

It sounds like it's time for the CFA to activate those dozens of unused RMR talkgroups and allow them to be used for fireground comms if required.

[Bass Junkie]

What i'm asking is how are the comms disseminated down the chain???

From the ICC, are IC channels used to communicate to, what? (FOV??? Comms Van?), which then use IMCs to communicate with FCVs???, which then communicate with individual appliances over fireground channels???

It's all very confusing?

So, how are the comms pools arranged, how are messages transmitted (and through what channels) down the line, from the top (ICC) all the way down to individual trucks???

What is involved? FOV? Local comms vans? FCVs? District HQ's? ICCs? IMCs? ICs?

Looks like most of your questions are answered already, but just to add a couple of cents:

The ICC command channel is basically for talking to all the people with vests - ops officer, logistics, sector commanders etc. Depending on the size of the incident, this could be anywhere from one person in the ICC organising things for one guy in charge on the ground, to a complex structure with people filling many roles both in the ICC and on the ground.

As an example, lets say an intel officer needs to warn of a change in wind direction. The intel officer would radio the comms operators on the ICC channel. The incident controller would then tell the comms operator to raise each sector commander (is that the right phrase?) to let them know. The sector commanders will be monitoring the ICC channel and will then relay that information back to the truck crews via the fireground channel.

In terms of actual equipment - each of those special people with the pretty vests will have at least two radios in the truck, and usually two portables on them too. An FOV can kinda act like an ICC in this context, or it can simply be a point where the people with vests have access to information and planning/operational equipment.

Are you familiar with AIIMS at all? Might help in understanding the flow of information and the roles involved

[X-Firey]

Do a Google search of 'Australasian Inter-Service Incident Management System' (AIIMS).
Hopefully that may fully answer your question Blake....

[Blake]

Thanks blokes.

Bass Junkie; that was what I was looking for
Cheers mate

And yeah BJ and X-F, I am familiar with it, it was partly how I got this far.
However it wasn't specific enough for me, with regard to the CFA and radio comms usage.

Anyone else with input, please don't hesitate to chime in

[madmarto]

...
As an example, lets say an intel officer needs to warn of a change in wind direction. The intel officer would radio the comms operators on the ICC channel. The incident controller would then tell the comms operator to raise each sector commander (is that the right phrase?) to let them know. The sector commanders will be monitoring the ICC channel and will then relay that information back to the truck crews via the fireground channel.

In terms of actual equipment - each of those special people with the pretty vests will have at least two radios in the truck, and usually two portables on them too. An FOV can kinda act like an ICC in this context, or it can simply be a point where the people with vests have access to information and planning/operational equipment.
...

BJ is pretty much spot on, except the Sector Commander (SC) in FCV or FOV relays the info to the Strike Team Leaders (STL) in an FCV, who then pass it on to the Crew Leaders (CL) in the trucks. This is variable on the level of incident though.
- Level 1 - local job, handled by brigades.
The Incident Controller (IC) talks direct to VicFire (limited or no use of fireground channels). IC <> VF
- Level 2 - bigger job, handled by the Group/LCF.
May involve sectors. The IC & SCs generally work from FCVs on Fireground ch's with the group running the LCF/FOV for comms). IC <> LCF <> VF.
- Level 3 - shit storm, District ICC active.
Use of strike teams, Fireground is divided into sectors, comms operate as outlined above - FG <> STL <> SC <> LCF/ICC <> VF.

As BJ said, all those "pretty vests" will carry 2 radios so that messages can be passed effectively. The CL and STL will most likely also use a simplex UHF CBRS ch to speak directly to the crews, but the majority of radio traffic is run off the Group/District Comms Plan using CFA radios.

[Blake]

...The plot thickens.

Cheers for chiming in mate, that really does help to clarify it all in my mind.
All good info, thanks.

Anyone else care to chime in???