Tiger Airways grounded

Post by **AIRMAN** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:08 pm

This is a first for aviation industry here in Australia I believe! I read that low approaches on two occasions into MEL helped to decided the issue also there were other infractions which we probably won't get to know about.

I don't know where they hire their aircrew from. Anyone know?

Cheers

Post by **Phantom** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:10 pm

The latest low approach was into AVV on the 30/06/11

Busted a height on an approach by 500'

Yeh, 1st time in Australian aviation history a carrier (major rpt carrier) has been grounded by CASA

From news.com.au

The action followed the regulator issuing the airline with a show cause notice in March, and two recent incidents where pilots have twice flown into Melbourne airports below the lowest safe altitude.

The most recent incident occurred on Thursday night when a Tiger Airways Airbus A320 flew into Avalon airport below the lowest safe altitude.

CASA says taking Tiger's response into account, it's imposed a number of conditions on the airline's air operator's certificate.

They include actions to improve the proficiency of Tiger's pilots and their training and checking processes, changes to fatigue management and improvements to maintenance control.

Tiger says its domestic services will remain suspended until next Saturday while it conducts investigations into two recent operational incidents.

Post by **AIRMAN** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:33 pm

You know but you won't say. Leave us to draw our own conclusions OP?

Approach 500' under is a bit chimney rattling?

Post by **Phantom** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:29 pm

Draw what ever conclusions you want... The fact is that CASA have suspended operations pending further investigations.

Not just from a single area or particular incident, but rather from a few different areas that breach the privileges of their AOC.

The only sure thing is that if you booked a cheap flight with tiger over the next few days, it's probably time to book with another carrier or start driving...

Post by **AIRMAN** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:16 pm

Jetstar have offered to help with stranded or booked PAX.

Post by **Phantom** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:56 pm

I believe JQ and DJ are helping stranded TG pax to get to where they want to go.. Unsure if QF are but I believe the fares they (DJ and JQ) are offering pax is quite reasonable.

Post by **vk2gel** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:43 pm

TT, TG is Thai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_codes-T

Post by **Phantom** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:09 am

Sorry - I got it mixed up with their flight strip tag "TGW"

Post by **Phantom** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:23 pm

Yeh down with JHAS

Post by **brownbearwolf** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:01 pm

Not knowing the STAR designator to Ml used that day by TIGER,it is hard to give too much information However, if an aircraft is cleaer for a Visual Approuch, the the IFR LSALT does not apply as the approuch is a visual let down on the PAPI The ILS X or Y for rwy 16, have the capture ALT of 4000 at 11.8 DME and a CAT II minima of 532' with and RVR of 350 mtrs Runway 27 ILS (LOC) The capture alt is 3000' and the minima 610 (880) 800 mtrs vis The RNAV is a bit different. Maybe it is getting rid of an extra airline two retail the two airline policy ATC are becomeing big brother in controlling aircraft and lots of restrcitions are creeping into the mix of VFR IFR opperations So getting rid of Class C type aircraft, it frees up how the airapsce can be controlled. Since the introduction of the two main ATC (FIR) Centres controlling Australia (AMMM and ABBB). There is an increasing trend towards seperation failures with in the two Regions. Maybe there will be a lot more comes out of this incident in the future that will resualt in a major shake up of the controlling bodies. Australia's airspace is larger than Europes where there is a lot more traffic in the air and operators flying about Europ Control do a good job in both cordination and handling of overflights. Slot times and 24 hour notifcation is not a standard thing for flight crews. Yet it seems that over here we have problems with the amount of aircraft using the airspace effectivle. Flight Crews need to understand how the system wooks to operate within that system effectivley. Now where did TIGER get it's flight crew, the same place the other airlines got their Flight Crews If you have either a Air Transport Pilot Licen Aeroplanes, a multi engine endorsement Instrument ratiung and more that 1500 hours, then pass the selection test and show in the Sim that heavy aeros are a natral progression, you if hires. sit in the Right seat until CASA think you can move over to the Left seat If you have the exames for AATP passed. the endorsments and ratings but not the houres, you have a Frozen ATP until you reach 1500 hours in your log book Several First Officers are FATP's licence holders and work through the flights gaining hours to become a First Office So the requiments are the same for any airline front office seating The company policy departnment and SOP' s set up how the airline will opperate its aircraft. Hope this has helped.

Post by **Phantom** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:00 pm

Oh dear ....

Firstly there are problems with your post.

The runway in use at MEL at the time of the incident was 27 - NOT 16

They were assigned the A1A arrival rwy 27

The crew didnt call visual- they were flying the star as it was night.

It has nothing to do wit CAT I or CAT II minimas - this breach was turning "base" on the star when they decended below the LSALT

When you call visual at day or night, you still have requirements to maintain before and after you call visual (Day or Night).... LSALT or not .... MOCA or not.... tracking requirements.... etc

The two FIRs of which you talk are YMMM and YBBB (no A in the identifier)

Moving from RH to LH seat has NOTHING to do with CASA - it is dependant on the company requirements, which are written in the Ops manuals (which are approved by CASA) CASA dont choose who sits in whatever seat - the company does.

You dont get an ATPL unfrozen when you get 1500hrs, there are other requirements in Oz before you get your ATPL "unfrozen" (Night/IF etc)

before you keep speculating, go and have a read of the ATSB report on the incident and then you "may" become a little more informed...

Regarding the mix of airspace, its not that confusing provided you know your stuff. Nothing about Class C would have changed this incident, Nothing either about Class A,C,D,E,G would have changed this....

The crux of the incident is well explained in the report.

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