GWN UPDATE/QFES Radios

[Sprocketz]

There was a Gov white paper done when Brisbane QPS went ENC , (it's on the net ) from what I read was media wanted to have a basic Job text feed that's delayed by 30 mins , not sure if QPS Followed the recommendation ?
Media are always tipped off by QPS media liaisons and individual officers (without approval ) so I don't think much will change personally .

MATCAD isn't that useful very pedestrian jobs on that .. and over the years that relationship has changed … very rare to get a call… Twitter is more useful these days

[Radio_Australia]

Really depends where you are and who you know .

[Sprocketz]

Regional areas are better than metro as you get that trust relationship .. But these days if something gets out that shouldn't questions are asked. In the early days the QFRS in Cairns would do a group media page , when pagers were all the rage.

[Gearbox92]

There was a Gov white paper done when Brisbane QPS went ENC , (it's on the net ) from what I read was media wanted to have a basic Job text feed that's delayed by 30 mins , not sure if QPS Followed the recommendation ?
Media are always tipped off by QPS media liaisons and individual officers (without approval ) so I don't think much will change personally .

There was an online system for media after the Brisbane region encryption which was an extremely dumbed down feed of jobs but it was completely useless as anything newsworthy was never on it. They stopped providing that about a year or so ago.

It's also nearly impossible to get information quickly enough for breaking news from police media because they rely on info being relayed to them by busy officers on the ground who have better things to do. So the only way these days is through contacts/scanning other services.

Things will change a huge amount on the Gold Coast and in Brisbane with all emergency services becoming encrypted because there's quite a big reliance on info from QAS and QFES radio traffic currently and even more so in Bris with no police...sad times for media and hobbyists to come.

[Sprocketz]

I went and visited the Global TV Newsroom in Edmonton Canada and they had been issued with handheld radios from the Police with the encryption key so they could monitor general traffic. They had no access to the secret squirrel channels.

Ambos are ramping up their twitter feed but even tonight the tweet for a non injury prang was issued 40min after the first lot of radio traffic and they were about to pack-up and go when it popped up. I'm sure they will also get sick of the increase in media calls with the information vacuum . They should consider a multi agency 24/7 media shift.

I can see the benefits from their side and if it helps save a life it can only be a good thing . It's just a shame

[Aussie2014]

With the change of state govt, it will be interesting if there is a change of direction with ambo/fire on the question of encryption.

Hi to all.

It's been a while since my last posting and with a change of government here in Queensland, we still don't know what the future is for the Government Wireless Network (GWN). In saying this, the 2015-16 State Budget will be handed down next month but one thing is quite visible on the QFES radio channels, is that both testing and staff are now attending GWN Training sessions.
One could also get the impression that this training maybe far more complicated than perhaps, other training. However, I note the posting re the latest amount of radio licences now appearing on the ACMA site and; would I be correct in saying that under this new system, the cell coverage will be considerably lesser than the existing system.
From listening, it appears that Fire Comms can't dispatch a selcall test if the unit is using or trailing the new GWN.
Whilst this GWN project is (from other reports sighted earlier today) a 10-15 year rollout; how much is the government going to allocated for this -next month??
Since my last round of postings, prior to the last election campaign, I did receive communication from the previous Minister (QLD) Police Minister that a contract had been signed for the GWN project 10-15years. So; as both testing and training is now in motion, I will be focused on both the Budget and the Parliament's Estimates Hearings to see what arises.
What I can say (from some communications) this GWN system is flawed and to some unacceptable.

[Sprocketz]

With the change of state govt, it will be interesting if there is a change of direction with ambo/fire on the question of encryption.

What I can say (from some communications) this GWN system is flawed and to some unacceptable.

If it has Newman's fingerprints on it the current mob will be happy to say it's another folly of the previous govt and knock it on the head… Most CIB use their mobiles to communicate as the less stuff able to be the target of a FOI request or internal review the better. Everything over the air is in the system and can come back to haunt them.

[brisescannerdude]

that is true - as such as the system is floored, has a lot of short comings, purchased at the twilight of the technology life, I two can not see any more away from mobile phones. Even an encrypted digital radio will still have to many eves droppers for some ppl's

[rooster]

...has a lot of short comings

Interesting that you have found many short comings with the system, care to offer what you have found to be shortcomings in the system?

[Sprocketz]

In building coverage has been an issue

[rooster]

Hopefully VRS will help with that - but that won't help users who are on foot without a vehicle though.

Is QFES going to use talk groups for fireground use or remain on simplex freqs.?

[scrawn80]

http://www.qld.gov.au/dsitia/initiative ... s-network/

https://ruralfire.qld.gov.au/Publicatio ... 202014.pdf

[SACFS Firey]

Having used analogue and digital systems across 4 different states now i can confirm that there is a definite loss in communications ability in rough terrain using digital GRN (It is one reason why certain areas of the country MAY never go to Digital ENC - that info from someone in the NSW police). As for ENC it really does come down to department budget. Techs from different agencies in different states that i have spoken to all same the same thing - would love to but its a heap more money needed in order to change over and to keep operating. For most agencies other than police, it is not worth the cost when that money is needed for other more important budget items. So unless extra money is found by state or federal governments there has to be a justification to go digital enc across all agencies in each state.

[Ashnm001]

In building coverage has been an issue

have you seen how many aparatus licenses are against GWN (DSITIA) in the CBD - inbuilding coverage would be awesome....

[brisescannerdude]

The question of encryption and range is hard to say - it comes down to radios ability to have enough data to de-crypt to then reconstruct the audio or data (all maths). The ability of the data recovery is very much determined a number of factors including location, environmental etc, so you can imagine how a modern building with tungston coated tinted glass mucks around with signal.

Considering the level of saturation of sites in seq I think there issue will be how well will the radios deal with too much rf and there ability to operate efficiently.

The other question on encryption is we all assume it is AES, it could be something a lot weaker like ADP!

You can bank on keys leaking - it has occurred in the past in NSW and was only picked up by accident by a kenwood dealer

Considering the number of new sites added in the last 3 months on the south side alone, more capacity in the cbd, training is a laugh based on feedback from people who have attended I think this network is going to have a rocky start, it will be interesting to see what occurs.

[railscan]

You can bank on keys leaking - it has occurred in the past in NSW and was only picked up by accident by a kenwood dealer

Oh no it wasn't!

The leak was from a determined source and the key is now changed on a regular basis as it will be with the GWN, you can bet on that.

On encryption, there is a considerable amount of FEC involved so degradation is minimal if any.

R

[brisescannerdude]

My point on FEC is simple, if the signal is screwed with due to environmental/location and the error rate of the data stream is to high and fec is struggling then the rest is history, there has been a number of issues reported with in building coverage etc due to degradation of signal in one or both directions.

encryption keys - People are human and money tends to talk. It has occurred and will reoccur since there is money at stake, concerning NSW - they have reported one via open news source but reporting other incidents sorta undermines people's view of network security.

Anway back on topic, I still seeing a lot of testing, radios denys, joins and data updates but not a lot of talking on the sites I'm monitoring. The number sequence will be interesting and to see if they have tried to keep in line with other states or gone some of it alone.

[Ashnm001]

No FEC in P25. The P25 Common Air Interface uses Golay and Hamming Error Correction Codes.

I believe that encryption doesn't make any difference to the coverage - as it's digital it's effectively a stream of 0's and 1's, and doesn't make any difference if they are encrypted or not. It's all in the standards so it's not an over the top hack.

[railscan]

No FEC in P25. The P25 Common Air Interface uses Golay and Hamming Error Correction Codes.
I believe that encryption doesn't make any difference to the coverage - as it's digital it's effectively a stream of 0's and 1's, and doesn't make any difference if they are encrypted or not. It's all in the standards so it's not an over the top hack.

I think you will find Hamming and Golay codes are FEC.

R

[Ashnm001]

yep, your correct, i'm confused.